Seriously, your evaluation of the first gov. fathers’ intentions is right on. The problem was their desire to somehow separate religion from politics. Can’t be done! Question is, what did God/Christ intend the Christian’s involvement to be.

You see, Christ ran for and won the position of Commander & Chief of the Government of which I’m a citizen. I am only a physical citizen of the world’s gov. I am a spiritual citizen of his Gov./ Kingdom. So, if I believe Him, I don’t have to involve myself in trying to change what God has already planned. Show me from the New Testament where Christ or His followers were involved in the political process. Other than spreading the Gospel I have yet to find them doing anything else. Except, when they provided universal health care by healing the sick and caring for the widows and poor. Hmmm

So, if you don’t buy any of that, you will continue to be involved in politics. Which leads me to comment on your assessment of the decision making process of Christians in whom they vote for. Right on! If you are going to be a part of this worldly process, then how dare you presume to know God’s will. How can you declare how I should vote. How arrogant is that?

Just before, in fact on the day of the election, I received an e-mail reminding me to be sure and pray for those who were not voting for McCain, that they would be convicted that he was God’s choice for President and change their mind.

I prayed that God’s will be done.

According to this e-mail and others in the Christian community, Obama being elected was not His will.

I’ll end this by saying, hang in Lach. Keep questioning and we still love you. Even though you are a bleedin heart Christian ( whoops liberal )

1) Yeah, Kari and I are very careful about it as well, but it’s hard to know how far (not?) to go. The catholic church has been opposed to a lot of birth control we accept as OK, maybe they’re onto something.

7) Yeah, but isn’t that a total loophole? Here’s their statement on their website, even describing it themselves as essentially a loophole: “Focus on the Family Action is a cultural action organization that is completely separate from Focus on the Family, legally. It has been created by separating out of Focus on the Family those activities which constitute lobbying under the IRS code so that they can be expanded in scope. It will provide a platform for informing, inspiring and rallying those who care deeply about the family to greater involvement in the moral, cultural and political issues that threaten our nation.” Aka, “we’re the same, this is just a technicality.” They’re gaming the system, and they know it. They’re violating the spirit of the law with the letter of the law. Seems unethical.

I don’t know for sure, but that’s not really our job. We have first-hand accounts from each of them that they are, and we’re not in a position to judge them (thankfully). That’s why I conclude that it doesn’t really matter anyway. Only God can know the condition of the heart. Heck, even George Bush claims to be a Christian!

Thanks again for the comment, I appreciate the contribution to the discussion.

1. A lot of Christians face that question by being careful about the birth control method, ie. different medicines go to varying extremes to prevent/terminate pregnancy and there are lots to choose from…

7. That’s why the letter came from “Focus on the Family Action”. Focus on the Family cannot lobby politically or they would lose their tax-deductible IRS status.

and 8. Really? Do you know that? Not just about Obama, but about McCain as well. I’m usually pretty skeptical. But the truth is you can never know the state of anyone else’s heart. The most indication we have is the know-them-by-their-fruit type.

What’s nuts to me is that McCain does not care in the least for the sanctity of human life. Killing people is against God’s commandments, and starting war is murder. Period. We are not ancient Israel. God does not call us to exercise His vengeance on other nations. There is no longer a just war. It can be just to enter a war to stand up for people being treated unjustly, if only to shorten it and bring evil people to justice. Starting a war, and killing hundreds of thousands of people is certainly not “pro life.”

Second, the phrase “pro life” is rubbish anyway. It’s emotional language, made out to villianize anyone who opposes that stringent and sometimes hypocritical viewpoint. If I disagree on one point at all, am I anti-life?

Third, abortion is such an absurd thing to hang a presidency on. This is the job as the CEO of one of the most powerful nations in the world. We have foreign and monetary policy to worry about, poor people within our borders to feed, and a war that is costing trillions of dollars. We have a failing infrastructure, out of control inflation, corruption at all levels of the government (Ted Stevens, anyone), and all the while we’re cutting science and education programs. For Unborn babies?

Fourth, Jesus doesn’t ask us to exert our powers of influence on the government to impose His Kingdom on earth. When He came, the jews were expecting someone to come overthrow Rome and force God’s kingdom through military and political might. Jesus came for the hearts of individuals, not the seat of the nation’s capitol. Jesus wants us to console people who make mistakes, to counsel them in love, and to guide them to Him. He never forced himself on anybody, allowing them to make the right or wrong decisions. By legislating morality you force people to make decisions you make. Through this they resent you.

Fifth, when abortion is legal it does not occur more often, there’s just better channels for education and care. (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/world/12abortion.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin)

Sixth, if you believe an unborn fetus is a human, essentially a helpless human, the only logical sentence for a woman who has an abortion (raped or not) would be the same as someone who murdered a retarded child. In the state I live in that would mean the death penalty. I want to see a “pro life” supporter say that a mother who chooses abortion needs to go to prison or be killed by the state. Palin herself couldn’t even say that. I will vote for a “pro life” candidate who can show some intelligence there.

Seven, shame on Focus for endorsing a candidate at all. Shame on Apple for opposing Prop 8. (http://www.macworld.com/article/136372/apple_proposition8.html) Shame on Google too. They should all be penalized for doing so, since it is not the responsibility of an organization to endorse a political party or candidate. It is the role of a company to produce valuable goods and services. That’s it. What about Focus’s Obama supporting employees? What about every one of the Obama supporters, whose voices, hard work, blood, sweat, and tears have been poured into Focus’ mission all these years? They can blog and email all they want, but they’re not the 900 pound gorilla Focus is. Companies should be fined, Focus should lose whatever non-profit status they have with the IRS.

Eight, Obama is a Christian. He’s every bit a follower of Christ as McCain. Even if he weren’t, God could use him for just the same amount of good. Come to think of it, it doesn’t matter if he is or isn’t anyways. Politics and religion have no place together. Our founding fathers tried to steer us away from the mess we’re in today, and this is what we get for ignoring them.

Nine, McCain will not overturn Roe v Wade. He’s been on the record about this for ages. Most recently he was “rated 75% by the NRLC, indicating a mixed record on abortion,” even voting to “expand embryonic stem cell research.” Kindof sounds like an anti-lifer.

Lastly (I promise), the courts must represent justice, not the whims of the people. Courts must also think down the road about prescient they set. The judiciary branch is but one of three branches designed to help keep the other two accountable to the constitution and vice-versa. We do not appoint judges because they are conservative or because they are liberal, but because they are just. We need fairness, wisdom, and purity from our judicial system, not vindictiveness or personal agendas. On this point we as a nation have failed for decades.

In summary, God wants us to be kingdom builders. We are called to love our neighbors, and to proclaim his victory over sin until He comes again. We are called to care about people’s hearts, and be inwardly focused examining ourselves and confessing our sins. Jesus was patently unconcerned with earthly rulers, telling us only to respect them and pay our dues. If we seek to carry out the mission he has entrusted to us, we should elect a president who is concerned enough with individual liberties and rights to promote such revolutionary pinko ideals. I will vote for Barack Obama on November 4th, because he will continue to make America the kind of place where you, I, and anyone who disagrees with us can converse openly as we have here, without fear of persecution. I’m not a democrat by any means, and many of his agendas and policies bother me a great deal. Sadly, once again in America we are forced to choose the greater of two evils.